Forum:Consistency in Translation/Resolved
'Kairoseki' Seems like most people support translating this as "Seastone". Can we agree here? 20:41, May 24, 2015 (UTC) Well, let's be fair. Just as many people are for "Sea-Prism Stone" or just "Kairoseki". But I am for "Seastone". 14:19, May 25, 2015 (UTC) I wouldn't mind it being untranslated but this one doesn't really matter. Barely anybody is for Sea-Prism Stone. I say Seastone or Sea Watchtower Stone since Watchtower is the literal translation. SeaTerror (talk) 17:54, May 25, 2015 (UTC) I guess it's more or less dependent on what the VIZ uses. Sea-Prism Stone sounds good. 18:08, May 25, 2015 (UTC) It's not at all dependent on Viz. We can use whichever one we deem more approriate. I support "Seastone"; It's smooth and simple. "Prism" isn't present in original term, and doesn't really have anything to do with the substance. 19:52, May 25, 2015 (UTC) What Kage said pretty much. Prism is awful. SeaTerror (talk) 11:00, May 26, 2015 (UTC) I support "Seastone". It's the most commonly known term by english-speaking fans, and it's not overly wordy. In the real world also, specific types of stone each have their own translation (random example: Limestone = 石灰岩 literally "Stone Ash Stone" (lol) in Japanese) 04:47, June 15, 2015 (UTC) I support using "Seastone". As Jopie said, it's the most common known term by English speaking fans, and it's not very wordy, plus it rolls off the tongue better than "Sea-Prism Stone". 00:43, June 30, 2015 (UTC) I'm against Seastone. What's wrong with using Kairoseki? It's not like after this forum is decided we'll go and change every single Japanese word on this wiki to an English equivalent. 16:42, June 30, 2015 (UTC) Nova, read our arguments above :D ^ 16:44, June 30, 2015 (UTC) I did. The main argument seems to be "the most popular fan translation", and we all know how inaccurate fan translations can sometimes be. We have the original term used, in the original language used, and I think we should use it. 16:47, June 30, 2015 (UTC) No, my argument was that on top of the term being well known by the english speaking fan base, it's also typical for stone types to be translated (usually not literally) in our language. Hence, we follow that standard. We can mention the word Kairoseki in the first sentence of the Seastone article to be clear. 17:01, June 30, 2015 (UTC) Nova is technically right anyway since it actually translates to Sea Watchtower Stone and not Seastone. Viz's is even worst with Sea-Prism Stone. SeaTerror (talk) 17:13, June 30, 2015 (UTC) Check my Limestone argument. 17:28, June 30, 2015 (UTC) So then we've been using a wrong translation for both. SeaTerror (talk) 17:37, June 30, 2015 (UTC) No, that's just how the english language works. 17:52, June 30, 2015 (UTC) No, translations are supposed to be as literal as possible without changing the meaning of words. SeaTerror (talk) 17:57, June 30, 2015 (UTC) They're supposed to be, but that's not how the english language (or any language, really) works. Language is fluid, and we always use the simplest term that has the strongest connotation to the correct definition. In this case, the term is "Seastone". It makes the most sense to use when mentioning the word in other articles. Since we're a wiki, of course we'll clarify the most accurate translation of the term (Sea Watchtower Stone) on the Seastone article itself, so that there are no misunderstandings. 15:51, July 1, 2015 (UTC) I've always supported "Seastone". I think if we use "Sea Watchtower Stone", it can be very weird in other articles since in the English language, it doesn't make much sense. We don't just need to translate things directly; part of the usefulness of translation is making it make sense in English. "Seastone" makes sense. "Sea Watchtower Stone" does not. 15:55, July 1, 2015 (UTC) ^agreed. 16:27, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Alright, seems like a clear majority for "Seastone". Closing this section. We should probably get a bot to change all instances of "Kairoseki" on the wiki into "Seastone". 17:26, July 1, 2015 (UTC) 6 against 2 is a majority? 17:54, July 1, 2015 (UTC) "A majority means that more than 50% of the voters voted for the person or issue in question." - Google 18:00, July 1, 2015 (UTC) "Sea Watchtower Stone" does not." Citation needed. SeaTerror (talk) 19:21, July 1, 2015 (UTC) 'Yonko and Shichibukai' Yonko smoothly translates to "Four Emperors", but Shichibukai would be more difficult. Thoughts? 20:41, May 24, 2015 (UTC) I have no problem with Seven Warlords. I understand that a lot of people will. 14:36, May 25, 2015 (UTC) Titles/names should never be translated. I'm against both being translated. SeaTerror (talk) 17:54, May 25, 2015 (UTC) I go with Seven Warlords of the Seas and Four Emperors, like Celestial Dragons (as VIZ uses, instead of the direct Heavenly Dragon Folks). 18:08, May 25, 2015 (UTC) I have stupid reasons for it, but I'm against translating Shichibukai. I think Four Emperors would be better than Yonko, but I don't care enough to make a fuss about that. 18:49, May 25, 2015 (UTC) I'd go with 'Seven Warlords of the Sea'. In context it translates to 'Seven Military Officers of the Seas'. The English definition of Warlord is 'Military Leader' or 'Military Commander' (or any military authority) in a warlike nation. I think it's close enough in my opinion.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 21:57, May 25, 2015 (UTC) Still a title. SeaTerror (talk) 11:00, May 26, 2015 (UTC) Well ST, I (and others currently participating in the conversation) don't believe that titles should never be translated. If that's your reason, then we know your vote. But restating it isn't going to change anyone's mind here. If you could go into more detail as to why titles should never be translated other than preference, or if you have any other reason in mind, that could add to the discussion. If we didn't translate any titles, then admiral should become taisho. Taisho Kizaru. And we'd do that to every other rank as well. "Seven Warlords of the Sea" is a bit wordy, but I could also go with that. Maybe that could be the title of the article, but abbreviated to Seven Warlords in other mentions. Four Emperors, Seven Warlords of the Sea, Celestial Dragons, World Nobles, Marine Admirals, and God. All consistent, all commonly understood by readers. This is how I want it. 15:56, May 26, 2015 (UTC) How about "Seven Sea Warlords"? 16:21, May 26, 2015 (UTC) We should be using what's more popular. Shichibukai is more popular than Seven Warlords of the Sea. Yonkou is also more popular than Four Emperors. SeaTerror (talk) 18:37, May 26, 2015 (UTC) The only reason those terms are more popular is because that's how scanlators and fansubbers originally started translating them. Not because they're better left untranslated. If that was the case we wouldn't even be talking about this. The official translations already use 'Seven Warlords of the Sea' and 'Four Emperors', so if we start using those terms, the official translations of those terms will become the more popular ones. --DuelMaster93 (talk) 19:17, May 26, 2015 (UTC) We chose to use Celestial Dragons over Tenryuubito. So how is this different? 03:11, May 27, 2015 (UTC) "so if we start using those terms, the official translations of those terms will become the more popular ones." Citation needed. Those terms will never be more popular. Also if you're claiming that it's better to blindly use Viz/Funimation then I guess you want to move Zoro to Zolo and Bon Kurei to Bon Clay. SeaTerror (talk) 05:24, May 27, 2015 (UTC) What, you wanna go back to using Tenryuubito when the votes already said otherwise? 05:52, May 27, 2015 (UTC) No, I was only talking about those two terms ('Seven Warlords of the Sea' and 'Four Emperors'). I never said everything had to be official translations. "Those terms will never be more popular" - Citation also needed. As stated before, Shichibukai and Yonko are only more popular because that's how scanlators and fansubbers originally translated them. The offcial translations for those two terms in particular will become more popular if we use them, due to legal options becoming more popular. For One Piece, the majority of people watch the simulcast on crunchyroll or funimation as opposed to fan subs nowadays. The majority of people still use scanlations due to leaks, but Viz's Weekly Shonen Jump and Volumes sales are increasing. But in any case, popularity shouldn't be the sole factor in the decision. If that were the case, we should just do a poll.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 18:17, May 27, 2015 (UTC) That's still not how it works. There's no evidence that people would suddenly switch terms just because of an official translation. SeaTerror (talk) 20:06, May 27, 2015 (UTC) Same thing goes for your claim about official translations for those terms never becoming more popular. I was just simply giving reasons why I believe official translations for those terms could become more popular. At least I actually give reasons and elaborate. But in any case, as stated before, popularity shouldn't be the sole deciding factor. This is why we are having a discussion not a poll.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 10:14, May 28, 2015 (UTC) Titles are weird, because sometimes people translate them and other times they don't. Like the Japanese Shogun for example- some people do call them "Military Generals", as it literally translates to, but most people just go with "Shogun" or "Shogunate". I'm leaning towards keeping them "Yonko" and "Shichibukai" though, because they're easier to say (less wordier) once you get to know the word, which I'm pretty sure everyone does by now. 04:55, June 15, 2015 (UTC) I'll support keeping both of them in Japanese. Like Jopie said, less wordier and yeah, I'm pretty sure not everybody keeps up with the official English names. I support not translating either title. Keeping them as Shichibukai and Yonkou are fine. I consider them to be the same type of position/title as Shogun, which as Jopie pointed out isn't usually translated. MizuakiYume (talk) 00:06, July 10, 2015 (UTC) Clear majority. 02:04, July 10, 2015 (UTC) 'Flower Country' So this one I don't really get, but it should be here. Flower Country vs. Kano Country. We don't translate Wano Country. But apparently Kano/Flower has Kanji and that makes it different somehow? I don't quite know, just talk about it here. 21:37, May 27, 2015 (UTC) Not about consistensy, but I feel like Wanokuni should be translated to Wano Kingdom instead (same for Kanokuni), because the translation we use for the Japanese way of saying "China" (Chugoku) is "Middle Kingdom", and though pronounced differently, both use the same kanji (国). It also sounds better that way. 05:30, June 15, 2015 (UTC) I found sources saying it's literally "middle country". Isn't kingdom 王国? At least in One Piece all the ones we have labelled as kingdoms use that word, whereas Wano Country just has 国. And apparently Wano Kuni is a pun on Wa no Kuni, meaning "Country of Harmony". 14:03, June 15, 2015 (UTC) Oh, oops. I guess we call it both ways. I got Middle Kingdom from some world history textbooks I have. And yeah, "Country of Harmony" is the most accurate, as is "Country of Flower(s)". 国 can also be translated as Land or Province according to weblio. I guess Wano Country just sounds weird. 16:10, June 15, 2015 (UTC) I say go with Kano, since we go with Wano. 20:16, July 10, 2015 (UTC) Sure. We do the same for Torino Kingdom as well. 01:34, July 11, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, and translating Wano would be tough, since it's not in full kanji. 01:37, July 11, 2015 (UTC) I agree with Kano Country. --Klobis (talk) 03:28, July 16, 2015 (UTC) Clear majority. SeaTerror (talk) 18:31, July 16, 2015 (UTC) 'Tankobon' Not a OP term, but this one has bothered me forever. It just means "separate volume" or "independant book". "Chapters not yet in tankobon format" would just be "Chapters not yet published in volume format". Discuss. 18:17, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, translate it. 18:22, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, just like we did with Seiyuus. 18:36, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Go ahead, Mr. Jostur.--Xilinoc (talk) 18:53, July 1, 2015 (UTC) I agree. There's no point in leaving a word in Japanese when it's not a proper noun and can easily be translated. 23:41, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Go for it. 23:45, July 1, 2015 (UTC) Done. 23:51, July 1, 2015 (UTC)